muscle spasms

[Hasin M]

Hi All,
I have another question. I was working on a personal trainer today and couldn't seem to get enough pressure. He reviewed a 5 in most areas with the exception of the it band where he reviewed a 6. I had all my weight on him and you could feel his muscles twitching as I was working. Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Pompal 09.]

muscle spasms

Some people are completely out of touch with their body and don't know what pain is.

Do NOT kill yourself trying to go deeper and deeper. Fascia responds better to gentle sustained pressure anyway. Go to a depth that is comfortable for you - and if his tissue does not respond, use less pressure rather than more.

I re-trained one person by asking them if someone with "normal" pain levels would find this painful. When he said yes, I knew he was aware of the pain but blocking it out.

 

[Bond Reeves]

muscle spasms

good response Marion...
I was just going to say something similar.
In my experience, I seldom get results by "forcing" or trying to power through tissue.
I get better results by using less forceful techniques - such as myofascial release.

The way I look at it....muscle spasms and guarding indicate to me that the body is protecting an area from injury or further injury.
If I go in forcefully, the body's natural response is going to be further protection...
Not good.
Now, if I can use techniques that can safely persuade those areas to release, we are all much happier!

Whether the client incicates verbally it is painful or not is less important to me than how their BODY is reacting.

I have asked clients if a certain technique is painful or uncomfortable (because I can see their body responding in that way) only to have them reply back to me through gritted teetn.."No"...or "I can take it" while holding their breath. The body itself is a much more reliable indicator if the work is too deep. I seldom ask a client for feedback on pressure any more...it usually is not as accurate as what their body tells me.

 

[spirit]

muscle spasms

thanks once again for the awesome advice. I will be using the question - Would a person with normal pain levels find this painful? My client did like the massage and I will be doing some structural work for him in the future.

Thanks for your patience and words of wisdom as this newbie grows into the chosen wonderful field of massage.

 

[That_Skate_Kid]

muscle spasms

Nice responses so far!

To Leanne - As a "newbie", you will often find yourself doing things that you second-guess later. I think it's great that you bring these kinds of questions and issues to the MassagePlanetL forums for discussion! :grin: Hopefully something shared here helps you progress more rapidly!

A few thoughts for you:

Some people, athletes in particular, are frequently able to withstand greater pressure with less reviewed discomfort. There are lots of hypotheses about why this is... healthier tissues, increased physical pain tolerance due to training activities, altered perception of physical pain signals due to training, macho unwillingness to admit intensity of pain sensations, increased tissue density, etc., etc.

All of these are very interesting, but for you, right now, it doesn't matter why.

It is NOT necessary to cause pain in the course of helping someone. Strong arguments AGAINST causing pain are becoming prevalent among those who incorporate neurodynamic concepts into their manual therapy sessions.

It is possible to apply a great deal of pressure without causing significant pain. It is possible to achieve great results with very little pressure.

Developing the ability to palpate tissue qualities and cultivating a tactile understanding of tissue responses are enormously helpful and should be some of your professional development goals. If you can feel it, you can learn to feel it change, and that will tell you volumes about how to help your clients.

If you try to force "deep pressure", you blunt your sensitivity and ability to adapt your work to the client's changing needs throughout the session. Learn to apply more pressure with less effort and relax into it as much as possible.

 

[Marko S]

muscle spasms

Jason, thank you for your response. Your detailed information is very helpful to me and I appreciate your input. In school we were taught that the optimal therapy zone was when a client reviews pressure of 7 1/2 on a scale of 1-10. For my clients that request "Deep Tissue" I attempt to find their 7 1/2 by adjusting my tools (knuckles, fingertips, olecrenon) I have several clients that prefer light to medium pressure. I have very good results with these folks. These are my favorite massages. I can really feel my self relaxing into the massage and feel the effects that I am having on the tissues.

It seems like there are still many people out there that think "no pain, no gain" I do need to increase my skills in the area of educating clients. I guess there will always be those that won't return because the massage did not hurt like they thought it should. I never want to be the therapist that hurts!! I have had a few clients recently with very tight hamstrings. I have begun picking up the leg and applying palms or knuckles to the hamstrings while I extend the lower portion of the leg. I feel I get good results with this. Thoughts anyone?

Any suggestions on CEU's for me? I learned so much in school and felt very prepared to be out in the real world. I do think I have some decent skills but there is so much more to learn. Wish there was a program like in the movie Matrix. I could just hook myself up to a machine and know everything and be able to use it immediately!!

Thank you all for your support. This is an awesome board!!

 

[Mujer Alta]

muscle spasms

Any suggestions on CEU's for me? I learned so much in school and felt very prepared to be out in the real world. I do think I have some decent skills but there is so much more to learn. Wish there was a program like in the movie Matrix. I could just hook myself up to a machine and know everything and be able to use it immediately!!

LOVE this idea! :

I'm thinking you might like some Active Isolated Stretching (AIS) courses and/or Myofascial Release. As I'm sure you've seen, WaltFritz holds a lot of MFR seminars. I haven't taken one (yet) but I'll still recommend him simply because I agree with his philosophies on bodywork (and most things ). I do plan on attending sometime in the future when I can afford both the class AND the travel.

 

[Camilla Marie Rae]

muscle spasms

Thanks Taoist. There was a Walt Fritz seminar close to me but it was advanced The AIS sounds good too. One of our local schools has a CEU for Myofacial Energetic Massage. Wonder if it would be similar. I have some research to do

 

[prettyparadoxal 1]

muscle spasms

Jason, thank you for your response. Your detailed information is very helpful to me and I appreciate your input. In school we were taught that the optimal therapy zone was when a client reviews pressure of 7 1/2 on a scale of 1-10. For my clients that request "Deep Tissue" I attempt to find their 7 1/2 by adjusting my tools (knuckles, fingertips, olecrenon) I have several clients that prefer light to medium pressure. I have very good results with these folks. These are my favorite massages. I can really feel my self relaxing into the massage and feel the effects that I am having on the tissues.

It seems like there are still many people out there that think "no pain, no gain" I do need to increase my skills in the area of educating clients. I guess there will always be those that won't return because the massage did not hurt like they thought it should. I never want to be the therapist that hurts!! I have had a few clients recently with very tight hamstrings. I have begun picking up the leg and applying palms or knuckles to the hamstrings while I extend the lower portion of the leg. I feel I get good results with this. Thoughts anyone?

Any suggestions on CEU's for me? I learned so much in school and felt very prepared to be out in the real world. I do think I have some decent skills but there is so much more to learn. Wish there was a program like in the movie Matrix. I could just hook myself up to a machine and know everything and be able to use it immediately!!

Thank you all for your support. This is an awesome board!!

A pressure of 7 1/2? That is a remarkably specific recommendation, but don't take it as a universal, across-the-board rule.

What if the client took an Aleve or Vicodin an hour before they got on your table? Their pain sense will be blunted, so you might be doing more harm than good by the time they review "7 1/2" to you. Tissue response is far more accurate and important.

What if the person is highly ticklish? Or hypersensitive due to a skin, nerve, or other medical condition? Even light pressure will be perceived as far more intense. Again, tissue response is far more accurate and important.

The next time you are dozing off, have someone pinch you and ask you to rate it on a scale of 1-10. Notice that the act of rating it will involve a time delay as you shift to a different state of conscious processing, make the evaluation, and then voice your answer. By the time you give an answer, the pinch is long done and the tissue response has changed again. You want to develop a faster way of assessing and adapting to your client's bodies.

I think the most valuable use of the 1-10 pain scale is during assessment before the massage and again afterwards.

 

[Brecht]

muscle spasms

Jason, thanks once again for your words of wisdom. I do inquire about pain relieving medications prior to massage. One of my instructors told a story about breaking a clients rib in clinic. The client forgot to tell him she had taken a percoset beforehand!!! Tooo scary. I'm sure my sons will love to pinch me while I'm dozing!! Tissue response will be my focus. Client education for those that say "more pressure" is on the agenda too.