Advice Please

[Princess Sandie]

I'm male and enjoy getting massages. I typically get a 90 min full body sweedish massage. I ask for the full body and a little extra time in the shoulders (this is where I have most discomfort). My first therapist I ever had was wonderful. I felt complete and relaxed with lasting effects. I slept better and woke up in the morning feeling rested for a couple weeks. Her session included massaging my upper thighs, front and rear, and my buttocks. Isn't this part of a 'Full Body' massage? She has since moved on and my next visit I had to see a different therapist. My new therapist would only go halfway up my thighs and never my buttocks. I had ask for the same service. Also the pressure to my shoulders was not as good. The effects of this were short seemingly only hours later it felt as if I never had a massage. This, to me is not money well spent. I have moved on to try a new therapist elsewhere and the results were slightly better, but still not as good with the effects only lasting a day. This therapist also would not go no further than mid-thigh and that just makes me feel like it was only half done.

Now I wonder if the therapists think that I'm there for the sensual or erotic aspect of the massage. I do not want to ask the therapist why these areas were skipped so not to leave that impression. I am not interested in this at all, I'm married and get my sexual satisfaction at home. I just want to feel complete and relaxed. I deal with lot's of stress in my profession and the tension builds in my body. I used to be real modest about it and had a hard time relaxing my first time but my first therapist showed me that it was very professional and I learned how to relax. Now, I leave the session and do not feel complete. I haven't gone for another one in quite awhile and feel like I could use one now.

How do I express this without giving the wrong impression? Are there therapists that just have their own personal reservations about what areas they will not touch? I do not want to waste any more money hopping from therapist to therapist to find the one that can do it right. Is there any advice on how to approach my next visit to communicate my needs without make it seem improper?

Also, how often should I go and for how long should my sessions be to acheive more permanent results. I don't go that often, but if I can get the type of massage I'm looking for I would like to make it regular so I can eliminate some troubled areas of my shoulders over time. As of now, this problem has been with me for years and gets painful.
Thanks
Woody

 

[taylorlautnerlover]

Are you wearing boxer shorts during your massage? Me with a male that is wearing boxers I stop mid thigh or ( I try and get theire boxers as high up as I can. My regular male clients that I am very comfortable with I ask them to either wear briefs that day or nothing. If they have nothing or briefs on I will do the entire thigh and buttocks as well. With me I feel if you don't massage my gluts you have ruined my entire massage.
I do give them some glut work though over the sheets if they have boxers on but it isn't as good as having no sheets.

How often you go back, IMO would be better answered by your therapist. If you aren't satisfied with who your seeing keep searching for someone that you do like.
If you were my client I would love feedback from you after the session, wouldn't hurt my feelings after all its YOUR massage that you are paying me for. I am there to give you the best massage I possibly can. If I can change something next session I would gladly do so. Talk to her and see if she gives you an attitude, find another therapist.
Let us know how things turn out!!!

 

[morriss]

also, you might look for a therapist who uses a blend of swedish and deep techniques. this way you get the relaxation aspect plus the benefit of deeper, more focused work on your trouble spots.

and i agree with shannon, if you are leaving your undershorts on, that can send a message to some of us that you would only like work over the sheets on that area. there was a thread in another forum, maybe the student one, about glute massage and its boundries, methods, etc..
you may find that a good read. i'll go find it...

edit: here tis:

http://www.bodyworkonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4390

 

[Iluvsoccer]

You could tell them over the phone; before booking, that you have problems with your piriformis. Ask if she/he can address this. The piriformis is only one muscle of the glutes, but it may start a conversation to see if she/he is the right therapist for you.

Good luck and let us know what happens please.

 

[CurlyQ]

Thanks all for the replies. I should have said before, but I remove all my clothing. This was explained to me in detail with my first MT why I should but still left up to me to leave on my underwear. All the rest of the MT's I visited said to undress to where I was comfortable. This sounded to me like I should leave on something but I took off my underwear anyway since that is the way I thought ensured the best results.

Other things I should have said also were, I prefer a female and I think all of this is professional and am only interested in the effects. I do not have any inhabitions about my body and can care less really what is touched or seen so as long as it stays professional. I think that being a male puts me at a disadvaneforum.xxxe because so many males have made inappropriate impressions that we are often treated as such.

Thanks again
Woody

 

[Kent]

Now I wonder if the therapists think that I'm there for the sensual or erotic aspect of the massage. I do not want to ask the therapist why these areas were skipped so not to leave that impression. ... I just want to feel complete and relaxed. I deal with lot's of stress in my profession and the tension builds in my body. ... Now, I leave the session and do not feel complete.

It is rare that a massage practitoner assumes a client it there for the wrong reasons. We usually assume they are there for the right reasons (if we assume at all), and the other doesn't cross our minds unless they do something uncalled for.

If you are leaving the session and not feeling complete because an area was missed, you can talk to the therapist about it or call around and put the quiz on a few.

How do I express this without giving the wrong impression? Are there therapists that just have their own personal reservations about what areas they will not touch? I do not want to waste any more money hopping from therapist to therapist to find the one that can do it right. Is there any advice on how to approach my next visit to communicate my needs without make it seem improper?

As I mentioned above, you rarely will seem improper to a professional therapist. We just don't assume the worst first. So, go into the discussion with an open mind of what you are needing. You mentioned you need leg/thigh/glut and shoulder work, as the primary focus. Usually those that need glut work also need a lot of lower back/sacral work.

Let the therapist know, you don't want to be a "therapy hopper", but you must find someone who can work these areas. Let them know if they are uncomfortable with this, to please let you know prior to the appointmant so you can make some phone calls elsewhere. Consider finding someone who does deep tissue with swedish mixed in (mentioned previously) - and even consider asking about sports massage work mixed into that. The whole idea is that you need some focus on the problem areas.

Yes, there are therapists with reservations out there. Sometimes a therapist who is not comfortable in their "skin" will not work certain areas. Some therapists who are comfortable, will still not work certain areas unless asked (see the abdominal massage thread in this section). And pretty much all therapists have their own draping patterns. And then, depending on the techniques they use, they may work above or below the drape for the gluts.

I usually work through the sheet, because I can get more depth, leverage and specificity into the sacral area. Others, may use minimal lotion to do the same thing I do, without the drape. It's not because I am nervous to touch the sacrum, but because my technique works better this way. Specific deep glut work, I do the same thing for.

Now if I don't want to go so deep in the gluts, I may work with the drape exposing the whole leg (including the gluteal muscles - but this is for more of a firm swedish work and for a totally different effect). Your therapist should be able to communicate with you about his/her technique and you should be able to have a conversation about these things prior to your visit. If you can't -- I'd say look for another therapist.

Also, how often should I go and for how long should my sessions be to acheive more permanent results. I don't go that often, but if I can get the type of massage I'm looking for I would like to make it regular so I can eliminate some troubled areas of my shoulders over time. As of now, this problem has been with me for years and gets painful.

I think that being a male puts me at a disadvaneforum.xxxe because so many males have made inappropriate impressions that we are often treated as such.

When asked, I recommend to clients once a week for 6 to 8 weeks with hourly sessions to really start getting good improvement. Though many times they start feeling better in about 4 sessions. Some people feel like they need an hour and a half. I like that because it gives me time to work slower and get into more areas. However, that is not necessarily in everyone's budget.

I have some clients who have severe shoulder neck problems that come in weekly. Usually the client is able to tell what they need, once they start feeling better. I leave it up to them and only recommend when asked.

I really don't think being a male client puts you at a disadvaneforum.xxxe. I treat everyone the same and have more male clients lately than females. I've had one or two (maybe three) clients, in roughly 14 years, that I couldn't work on, d/t thier "poor behaviour".

Good luck!

 

[Squirsh]

I don't know if I'd totally agree in all situations, as I think some therapists do assume the worst first, and that may be necessary, especially with some men. I have had chronic pain in my sacrum and sciatic nerve problems on my left side. Therefore, I absolutely want the glutes worked. I also have functional dyspepsia, which is a digestive disorder, so I like abdominal massage. Especially with the glutes, the effect has been very positive for a couple days.

Like the original poster, I'm married and not looking for anything but relaxation and loosening up stiff muscles. I've had female therapists who the first time did not work on my glutes, but part of that I think because they automatically think if a client is clothed they skip over it or just do stretching type action over top of it. I think a big part of it is that they seemed to want me to have some clothing at the first appointment, and I totally understand that, being they don't know me from Adam. At the second appointment, instead of saying dress down to your shorts or level of your comfort they just told me to get undressed and actually seemed to prefer me being unclothed for the massage. It was like a night and day difference in the way they approached things from the 1st massage and the 2nd. I've found so far that most do the glutes but I have only found one or two that do abdominal massage. It's hard to find the right therapist, but the more appointments you have the more comfortable they will get with you and the easier it will be to tell them what you want.

 

[Dr Frank]

A client should never feel uncomfortable telling there therapist what they want out of the massage. If you the client want specific areas worked on the it's your duty to stress that your therapist prior to session whether you are a 1st time client or a 1000th time client. Its your massage not mine.

I know of not one massage therapist (and I know plenty) that assume the worst first when it comes to a male client. I will assume the worst first if you give me reason...and if I am assuming for some reason then I am refusing to work on you for a valid reason.

 

[????????]

I've found so far that most do the glutes but I have only found one or two that do abdominal massage. It's hard to find the right therapist, but the more appointments you have the more comfortable they will get with you and the easier it will be to tell them what you want.

woody,

I just want to point out something from this post. I personally don't think that you should have to go to multiple appointments with your therapist before they become "comfortable with you" before they will perform the therapeutic work you need.

This particular client may be having trouble finding a therapist who will - but across the board, this really is rarely the situation.

Just let them know what you need up front and professionally. It won't take long to find one who can help.

I know of not one massage therapist (and I know plenty) that assume the worst first when it comes to a male client.

I have to give this a big "Ditto".

 

[Pompal 09.]

well i'll say that i know plenty of therapists as well and MANY of them think the worst first. it just depends. when i went to school, we had a couple of instructors that said every man scheduling a massage was trouble and that you should ALWAYS be aware. i thought it was ABSOLUTELY INSANE that they said this and that they felt this way. it always freaked some people out in the class and i swear it made more timid type of personalities be weary when they didn't need to be. i hated that! we'd have discussions that lasted WAY longer than they needed to about this whole topic. one woman even told us she quit taking male clients because she just didn't trust them and made it seem that we shouldn't either.
sheesh... :roll:
anyway, unfortunately you'll just have to keep searching until you find the right one. there are good tips here about asking in advance if they do deep work along with relaxation. you'll be more likely to get someone who will give you a "complete" massage (meaning upper thighs, glutes etc.). i know plenty of therapists who don't work these areas and i always wondered why they don't. as far as the pressure goes, just ask the therapist to go a little deeper when she's at the area you want worked on deeper. we don't have any way of knowing you want more pressure unless you say it.

also, don't book a 90 minute massage with someone you haven't seen before. that way if you don't like them, you haven't wasted extra money on the extra time. and yes, when you fill out your intake form, mark the areas that you want some extra attention or areas that you want to be sure get worked on.

and, as far as my own opinion goes, don't say to a therapist "i'm not shy so don't worry about the draping" or "i'm not modest so however you've got to get in there" while they are draping you. i hate that and the only people who have said it to me are guys who are borderline inappropriate or totally inappropriate. (i sometimes let guys get away with more than what other therapists would. comments don't usually bother me so if a guy says something stupid, i usually just ignore it or pretend like i didn't hear him). but i do hate it when they say the above statements. i feel like telling them that i know how to drape them so that i can work on the areas i need to work on without exposing them. i only want to see what i need to see.

 

[Hettie.]

I've found so far that most do the glutes but I have only found one or two that do abdominal massage. It's hard to find the right therapist, but the more appointments you have the more comfortable they will get with you and the easier it will be to tell them what you want.

woody,

I just want to point out something from this post. I personally don't think that you should have to go to multiple appointments with your therapist before they become "comfortable with you" before they will perform the therapeutic work you need.

This particular client may be having trouble finding a therapist who will - but across the board, this really is rarely the situation.

Just let them know what you need up front and professionally. It won't take long to find one who can help.

I know of not one massage therapist (and I know plenty) that assume the worst first when it comes to a male client.

I have to give this a big "Ditto".

Assuming the worst may be a bit of a stretch, but if you think female therapists don't take "extra" precautions with male clients that they wouldn't with female the first couple times, I think that is somewhat erroneous. Of course, it depends on the particular therapist and especially the environment. Someone who works at a big office with a lot of people might feel more comfortable that someone who has a home office or rents an office for themself where only they work. It's understandable. Plus, at least from what I've seen on this board, male clients are given far less latitude in terms of inappropriate comments, some of which may not even have been meant.

 

[x_x]

As a FEMALE therapist who has worked for myself in an office and has done out calls.... I have NEVER and I repeat NEVER assumed the worse with a male client.Nor do I take extra precautions with a male client.

Let me run this by ya....whats the difference between a male client on my table making a "pass" at me or a lesbian doing the same thing? Nothing. I don't assume every unmarried woman walking into my office is a lesbian. I treat my male and female clients the same exact way.

For the record the best time I have ever had giving a massages was in the home of a lesbian couple. i took no extra precautions whatsoever. I went above and beyond my job to make it the best experience for both of them. It was a Valentine's day present for one of them from the other. I had a post about that but with the switch it got deleted.

 

[rivi]

I don't think all males are a concern, and I find inappropriate comments/dispalys boring rather than a threat. I've had a web site for almost 10 years, and particularly in the beginning, a LOT of enquiries I had were from males looking for more than a massage. In 1996 I doubt most people on here even knew what the internet was, let alone had a website about massage. A majority of websites at that seforum.xxxe were about adult services, and a majority of people looking for massage on the web were males, and they were interested in more than a massage. Over the last 5 years there has been a huge increase of internet usage by females, which has reflected in the number of women I receive enquiries from, and there has also been a big increase in legit enquiries from males. I hardly ever get the "it is a FULL body massage?" question anymore, with all the additional "how much extra for a FULL body massage?" questions (and only males asked those questions). I also used to get a lot of "I need a massage now" comments, not so much anymore. Every phone call from an unlisted number I would think "please, not another one!". I filtered out almost all of the them on the phone, but every now and then someone would slip through. I would say, when I first had the web site up, about 90% of enquiries were after extras (and I am talking about really obvious requests, not me being too paranoid - looking back I'm amazed I continued with the web site, but it was free advertising, and I was only doing massage part time to see if I could build up a client base), now it's less than 5% dubious enquiries. So I don't automatically assume the worst these days, but it was much more of a concern for me a few years ago, which I will happily acknowledge was because of where I advertised (and still do).

It's not that I assume all males are a concern, it's more that for someone looking for extras, they are better off finding a different provider for that service. My concern is that if they get on my massage table, they are not going to get what they are after. If someone rings up a plumber indicating they want their teeth taken out, the plumber will advise they don't do that type of thing and suggest they see someone else. I view dubious enqiries the same way, the ones that have slipped through the phone call screening are usually more laughable than scary anyway.

From my past experience, I have found that the best way to avoid inappropriate behaviour is to not accept new males within 48hr of their initial phone call. Since I usually am booked up anyway, it's a non-issue. If you are making the appointments with comments about "I really need a massage now/today" you may seem to be interested in more than a massage. Someone that says they'd be happy with an appointment early next week is not usually looking for extras, so if you can book in advance, it may help. It's probably best not to refer to it as a "full body massage", this is often used as a term for more than a massage. Most therapists will pretty well be able to cover the whole body in a one hour appointment, there's no need to ask if they do, start asking about "full" and "complete" and you may set off some red flags. If you say you need piriformis/glute work on the phone they should be able to tell you if they will cover the area.

 

[Smitty]

i totally agree about trying to get in the same day or early the next day. i don't take these people either. if you truly want to get a massage, and a good one, you'd be willing to wait a couple/few days to get in.

so remember that guys. i know a lot of massage therapists in my area that do the same thing. be willing to wait a couple of days before we can get you in. comments like, "i need to get in today" or if you call at 4 and ask for an appointment at 5...not so good. a lot of times i won't even return these phone calls.

(btw melb, the internet has been around since the 60's/70's and i'm sure plenty of us were familiar with the world wide web 10 years ago but i think it's great that you were one of the "pioneers" of postive massage sites on the web)

 

[Chibi - thulhu]

...if you think female therapists don't take "extra" precautions with male clients that they wouldn't with female the first couple times, I think that is somewhat erroneous. Of course, it depends on the particular therapist and especially the environment. Someone who works at a big office with a lot of people might feel more comfortable that someone who has a home office or rents an office for themself where only they work. It's understandable. Plus, at least from what I've seen on this board, male clients are given far less latitude in terms of inappropriate comments, some of which may not even have been meant.

As a therapist I disagree with this statment. For the most part doesn't matter with working as a sole practitioner or in a large environment. That is why most therapists like to take a moment to talk the the client first. And, usually sole practitioners practices are built on referrals, so, in my experience it is rare that someone just walks in "off the street" or without knowing someone who has been to my office before. On occasion, but rare.

I can't speak for eveyone else, but I do have a very good sense of perception and it is pretty easy to tell when a client is questionable - male or female.

And, regardless of what a client "meant to say", inappropriate comments are just that -inappropriate.

 

[tyler]

Personally, I don't expect a problem with every new male client but I do take percautions for my safety just in case. I have a private practice and at night I am generally alone in my building. If I have a new male client coming in, I bring one of my teenage sons or my husband to sit in the room across the hall. The client doesn't usually know they are there, and it adds some security for me. As for assuming the worst, I worked for a company when I first started a little over 2 years ago. Probably 75% of my appointments were looking for extras. I couldn't figure out why I was the one having all of the problems. One day I heard the owner say that yes, we did sensual massages. I quit soon after that. I rarely have any problems now. By the way, I work the glutes and the adductors almost every massage. It wouldn't be complete without working some of the most used muscles of the body. Good luck finding a therapist.

 

[snow]

...if you think female therapists don't take "extra" precautions with male clients that they wouldn't with female the first couple times, I think that is somewhat erroneous. Of course, it depends on the particular therapist and especially the environment. Someone who works at a big office with a lot of people might feel more comfortable that someone who has a home office or rents an office for themself where only they work. It's understandable. Plus, at least from what I've seen on this board, male clients are given far less latitude in terms of inappropriate comments, some of which may not even have been meant.

As a therapist I disagree with this statment. For the most part doesn't matter with working as a sole practitioner or in a large environment. That is why most therapists like to take a moment to talk the the client first. And, usually sole practitioners practices are built on referrals, so, in my experience it is rare that someone just walks in "off the street" or without knowing someone who has been to my office before. On occasion, but rare.

I can't speak for eveyone else, but I do have a very good sense of perception and it is pretty easy to tell when a client is questionable - male or female.

And, regardless of what a client "meant to say", inappropriate comments are just that -inappropriate.

I'd disagree with your perception, but let's just leave it at that. :roll: Actually, some female posters on this thread have already kind of backed up my point (husbands and sons across the hall in waiting), so I need not go further....there is nothing wrong with assuming the worst, I'm just stating the case that it does happen.

 

[Tarzan]

I worked for a company when I first started a little over 2 years ago. Probably 75% of my appointments were looking for extras. I couldn't figure out why I was the one having all of the problems. One day I heard the owner say that yes, we did sensual massages. I quit soon after that.

WOW! I think I would have quit and then called the police on that owner!! Isn't that illegal in your state? I feel really bad for you - I'm sorry you went through that. I'm glad you left, too!!

 

[cambay]

WOW! I think I would have quit and then called the police on that owner!! Isn't that illegal in your state? I feel really bad for you - I'm sorry you went through that. I'm glad you left, too!!

The owners take on what a sensual massage was seemed to differ from what the clients were asking. She kept telling me that sensual meant a light, relaxing massage. She wasn't listening to anything I tried to explain so I gave up. I don't know if she was doing anything inappropriate in her massages so I couldn't really call the police. Usually I have pretty good perception with my clients so I don't worry too much, but I would rather error on the side of caution when it comes to my safety.

 

[will s]

Regarding Guys vs. Girls:
I never assume anything about the reasons male clients come to see me. I am usually pretty good at reading vibes, though, and there have been a few who started to exhibit borderline (or even downright) inappropriate behavior. Thus, I take a few extra precautions when dealing with guys. (I work out of my house and I don't schedule guys on the same day they call, and I also don't schedule guys when my husband isn't home until I've seen them enough to know that they're fine. And I NEVER go to them unless I've seen them in my office a sufficient number of times, too.)

I probably handle myself a little bit differently between guys and girls. IMO, that's OK. Males and females are different. We're not the same. Thus, I think it's fine to deal with guys and girls a bit differently (especially with things like pressure, areas of the body to work, biomechanical imbalance due to differences in pelvic tilt, and social things. There's a different dynamic in dealing with women than dealing with men.)

But anyway...regarding dissatisfaction with a therapist:
It's your body, your time, your money, and your massage. Each person must find someone that clicks with them. Different therapists have different styles, mannerisms, demeanors, strengths & weaknesses, areas of the body they focus on during massage, etc etc. But the key here is COMMUNICATION. I would give my eye teeth to know what my clients are thinking or saying when they get in their car and drive home. Sometimes I get feedback via email ("that was a great massage!"), other times I hear nothing for 4-5 months and I never know if they liked it until they email me or call me up to set up another appointment. As for the clients that don't come back, I'd love to know why so that I can improve and serve ppl better.

The one thing I dislike is this scenario: I tell all clients first thing that if there's anything I need to know to make this a better massage, to let me know. I give a few examples: pressure, music, too hot or too cold, etc, and let them know that I'm an open person and to feel free to give feedback or ask questions. After having established this, the client is silent thru the whole massage (which isn't a bad thing, that's how many ppl relax and zone out). But then the problem part is if they leave less than satisfied, without ever having said a word. I don't know if this has ever happened to me, I'm sure it has ks it has happened to most ppl, I've heard lots of stories from clients and even posts from fellow therapists on various forums who have gotten massage and confess that they "should have said something but just didn't" or whatever.

Please clients, we therapists are begging: if there's something you don't like, please SAY SOMETHING! And don't wait, either. Say something right then and there, while there's still time to correct it. If the therapist is going too deep, say, on your back, don't let his or her elbow graze your shoulder blade bone six times. The first time it happens, say "oooh, that's tender...could you go a bit lighter near the bone?" IMO, you're not telling them how to do their job, you're telling them how best to take care of you. That's what they're there for. Any therapist who gets offended and thinks you're telling them how to do their job, run--don't walk--to another therapist.

OK, this got long and chaotic, I tried to pitch in my 2 cents each off the top of my head to a couple different topics, so there it is.

Peace,
~Jyoti